NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly spoke to Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba about the country’s ongoing war with Russia. Kuleba said that American aid to the Ukraine must continue or the world will “begin to fall apart,” because some countries will follow in Russia’s path “to invade, to commit atrocities, [and] to destroy trade.”
This aired at 4:35p ET on January 9 on All Things Considered. Highlights are available below and can be cited with attribution to NPR.
“Well, these are two big Russian lies. The one on the ceasefire working — it’s not only the government of Ukraine who rejects this allegation. It’s also the international media present on the ground in Kramatorsk, who immediately went to the places where allegedly Russian missiles hit dormitories with Ukrainian soldiers, and it didn’t happen. These soldiers did not die. So, this is just one — another evidence that you should never trust what the Russians are saying.”
On Vladimir Putin’s strategy and how it has changed over the past year
how it has changed over the past year
“Oh, I think we were — we miscalculated him. By the time he was pulling all this army to the border of Ukraine. Deep inside, he made the decision that he was going to invade and he was setting the stage for this invasion. But, you know, we are looking back in this situation, and now we can understand the sequence and the logic of his actions. Things were not as clear as they look now…
If I look at the battlefield and the situation now, I think that Putin doesn’t have too many options. In fact, I think he has only one option, but he doesn’t want to accept it. And that option is losing the war. The difficulty and the tragedy of this moment is that he is not willing to face the truth and to seek the way out. Instead, he’s throwing more and more resources and, most importantly, human resources into the battle, trying to win at any cost. But this is not going to happen. He’s not going to win.”
On what counts as a victory for Ukraine
“Well, point one is restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders…
[F]or us, there is no difference between Crimea and Donbas. There is no difference between Kherson and Simferopol or Yalta, cities in Crimea… [Crimea is] just another part of Ukraine that was stolen by Russia. As simple as that. And yes, we are talking about the restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity, including every square inch of our soil…
[W]e always have to remember that the probability of Ukraine surviving the Russian invasion and the probability of you and me talking in January 2023 was even less likely and was even lower than the one you were mentioning…
Ukraine has outperformed even its own expectations.”
On any signs that Russia may be willing to negotiate
“Not at this point. In fact, we see that they are rejecting the peace formula proposed by President Zelenskyy. But it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t keep trying. We have to pursue a diplomatic process as well. And this is what President Zelenskyy came up with: the peace formula consisting of ten simple steps. Some of them require Russia’s participation, some don’t. Russia may like it or may not like it, but it’s about building a coalition: a coalition of countries who are willing to seek [a] diplomatic solution along the lines proposed by President Zelenskyy.”
“Because if Ukraine loses, the world – in which the United States plays such an important role – will begin to fall apart. Because if Ukraine loses, countries – some malign actors across the world – will prefer to follow the Russian path and to take the same risks: to invade, to commit atrocities, to destroy trade. And this is everything that the United States had defended over decades and centuries of its foreign policy…”
“It’s up [to] the U.S. government and other partners of Ukraine to make their decisions on how long they are going to support us. But we have made our choice, we have made the decision. We are going to fight against an invader as long as we can breathe.”
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